Strollers are great – they let you take your babies and toddlers out and about into the world. They let them see things and begin to interact with the world, to normalize and socialize them in situations bigger than your own family.
But strollers have their limitations too.
If you’re looking for family fun in wilder environments – deep in the woods, or out on the moors, for instance – mostly, you’re asking for a world of hurt, clogged wheels and uncertainty if you try taking your kids there in a stroller.
Or maybe your kids are older and bigger than strollers allow, but you still want to keep them corralled and moving on your daily adventures.
Ever thought of looking at a stroller wagon hybrid?
If you don’t know what they are, chances are high you’ve never given them a first, let alone a second thought. But stroller wagon hybrids combine the essentials of a stroller with the much larger capacity and the go-anywhere potential of a wagon, giving you the best of both worlds.
It’s hardly surprising then that more and more parents are looking at stroller wagon hybrids as the answer to their child transportation dreams.
That said, they’re still relatively new in a market geared almost exclusively to get you to buy the newest, coolest stroller. That means parents have a ton of questions about them, which may be stopping them from taking the plunge with a stroller wagon hybrid.
“Can I use it as a big kid stroller?”, “What do wagons offer me that I can’t get from the newest strollers?”, “Aren’t they too chunky and clunky for use in everyday environments?”, “Won’t people look at me funny?” and the inevitable “How do I know which stroller wagon is the best?”
All questions that could be stopping parents from choosing a stroller wagon. And maybe – just maybe – stopping them from finding the strolling solution they need.
Stick with us – we’ll answer all your questions.
Two Of The Best
First, let’s define our terms.
There are plenty of wagons out there which are basically toys. They’re useful for a quick kid-thrills if you pull them round the backyard.
They’re not what we’re dealing with here.
They’re not strong enough, they’re not comfortable enough, and bottom line they’re not built for the use we want to get out of them.
Toys are great – but you don’t live in Toyland (Despite what it sometimes looks and feels like). Put these toy wagons out of your head, they’re not where we’re going today.
Today, we’re interested in stroller wagon hybrids that can actually take the place of a standard stroller.
Let’s talk about the two leaders in the market: the Keenz 7S Stroller Wagon and the Veer Cruiser Stroller Wagon Hybrid.
Both of these stroller wagons have enough space for two kids, and have the ride, the suspension and the comfort to let you transport them without complaint, even on longer walks and rambles into nature.
Their relatively open structure means they can carry bigger kids without a murmur, which means your concerns over maximum weight per kid are immediately lessened.
And if your kids have special needs which mean they’re beyond the capacity of standard strollers, you might be amazed at the capacity and freedom the stroller wagon hybrids give you from day one.
Let’s take a quick look at each of them for comparison.
Keenz 7S Stroller Wagon vs Veer Cruiser Stroller Wagon - Comparison Table
Best Stroller Wagons – Stroller Alternative For Big Kids Review
Keenz 7S: Best Affordable Stroller Wagon For Toddlers And Older Kids
Veer Cruiser: Best Stroller Alternative From Birth-5 Years
- Useable from birth. Converts into a bassinet and works with car seats.
- Holds two kids, each up to 55 pounds (average 5 year olds)
- Comes with an extendable footwell
- In-Flight entertainment! Snack tray and two cup-holders come as standard
- Stylish design
- Higher price than the Keenz
Keenz 7S Stroller Wagon vs Veer Cruiser Stroller Wagon
Let’s take a look at the Keenz and the Veers and see what features they share, and what points of difference might sway you one way or the other.
Quality & design
On this point, you have nothing to worry about whichever way you choose. Both the Veer Cruiser and the Keenz 7S lead the stroller wagon hybrid market on durability, on build quality, on fabric strandards and on thought-through, parent-helping design.
On design, it’s more a question of which fits better into your needs and your lifestyle.
Each of these two wagons accommodates two kids. Each has two seats. And each has a total capacity of 110 pounds – that’s 55 pounds per seat (55 pounds is fairly average for a five year-old, so you’re about to get your money’s worth out of these wagons).
Also, unlike some strollers out there, these stroller wagons are built for adventure.
They’re sturdy, they’re fully rough-and-tumble-ready, they’re going to last you at least till you have a couple of five year-olds to cart around in them.
So while the price may be higher than you’d usually pay for a stroller, you’re buying an investment in years of wagon-riding family fun and adventure.
Wheels, suspension & maneuverability
Did we say they were rough-and-tumble-ready?
Yeah, we weren’t kidding. Both the stroller wagons in our consideration have wheels that almost dare the world to make them tip.
The Keenz has 2 x 7.2 inch wheels at the front and 2 x 11 inch wheels at the back, and comes with spring suspension to mitigate the jumps and bumps of any terrain.
The Veer, going just slightly bigger, has 2 x 7.5 inch wheels up front and 2 x 12 inch wheels at the back.
These wheel dimensions are just one of the reasons why stroller wagons are gaining popularity with parents in areas where there’s a lot of nature to go and explore.
Where standard strollers might be transmitting every stone and judder up to your baby, the suspension and the wheel base of the stroller wagons turns that impact right down.
Many parents who look at getting a stroller wagon fear that it will be somehow harder work to push or pull when loaded up than a standard or double stroller.
Here’s the thing. The design of both stroller wagons combines a modernity of design with a callback, retro feel. The Keenz has the look of a 1930s hot dog wagon, and the Veer Cruiser looks like a coal cart from some old sepia photograph of struggling, hardworking immigrants taming the West.
Both designs highlight sturdy stability in a world of fold-up umbrella strollers, but they also both transmit the sense that they’ll be hard work to push, to pull or to maneuver.
But no – they’re both modern child-carrying vehicles, with modern steering and maneuverability considerations taken into account.
On the Veer Cruiser, the front wheels swivel to help you maneuver round obstacles and turn in surprisingly narrow spaces. It also comes with front-wheel suspension to ease your journey over harsh terrain, large rear wheels, and fenders to keep your passengers safe from mud and debris when you go off-road.
Those big wheels and rugged tires mean the Veer Cruiser can take you over grass, dirt roads and snow without too much upset to either your passengers or you, working as both engine and driver. It’s even pretty good on sand.
You also get a one-touch brake underneath the handlebar that’s ultimately flip-flop friendly. You can even use it barefoot.
Turning to the Keenz 7S, you have rubber, non-inflatable tires and pivoting front wheels, which gives you both insulation from the impact of tough terrain and a surprisingly nimble maneuverability.
If you’re going over harsher terrain, you can also deploy the jogging stroller trick and lock the front wheels for more stability, letting you push on without any drama.
The Keenz has some good braking potential too – in addition to an effective one-touch parking brake, it also comes with two extra brakes – one for each of its front wheels.
The Keenz wheels will take you over gravel, grass, dirt roads and the like with similar ease to the Veer Cruiser, though it should be noted that on sand, without modification, the Veer takes the crown, acting more like a tank or a staff car than a hot dog cart.
Which could be why Keenz offers a set of separately sold beach wheels, specifically to turn it into a beach buggy, with extra tread depth to deal with even softer sand. The two stroller wagons really are pretty competitive, side by side.
It’s worth noting that Keenz is already upgrading those beach wheels to make them fully all-terrain, responding to the increasing demand for stroller wagons to further differentiate themselves in the stroller market.
The battle for the crown of the most go-anywhere, do-anything stroller wagon is on.
Seats and seating options
Simply by virtue of the way they’re built, stroller wagons are roomier than strollers, and can be used for a lot longer. Size matters less in a stroller wagon than it does in a rigidly seat-based stroller too, so taller kids can stretch out and chill out more in a stroller wagon.
Apart from which, in double strollers, each kid has no option but to sit side by side, facing front. In a stroller wagon, they can engage with each other face to face, for an inherently more interesting journey.
Let’s talk interior décor. It’s one of the biggest points of difference between these stroller wagons.
The Keenz 7S? Basically a car. The interior is fully padded and pretty plush. You’ve got two seat cushions, cushioned backrests, fabric-covered, fully padded interior.
You have five-point harnesses with soft padding to both keep the passengers in place and keep them softly safe. The side walls are covered in fabric, all the sharp edges are covered or smoothed, and all the fabric is removable for washing.
OK. Slightly better than a car, then.
It’s also worth noting that, also like a car, the Keenz has high walls, meaning inquisitive hands out for a dangle are unlikely to get caught in the wheel mechanisms.
Basically then, put your children in the Keenz 7S and you’re essentially strapping them into a plush Faberge egg on wheels. Where’s the bad?
If anywhere, in the minor point of there being no footwell.
No, absolutely, kids don’t care two heartbeats that there’s no footwell – that’s why it’s a good thing the interior padding is washable, because dirty shoes or boots will happily tramp all over it.
A footwell would be a parent-friendly addition in any future version, but yes, it feels churlish to especially mention it, when so much else about the Keenz interior is geared to keeping your kids happy and safe.
Let’s take a look at the Veer Cruiser for comparison.
The seats on the Veer are built-in, with vents in the seatbacks for ventilation on summer days – the fun of pulling the Veer fast is that it means more ventilation! It also comes with an extendable footwell (Just saying…) to prevent the necessary scrubbing away of muddy footprints.
The interior’s on two heights, and, thankfully, there’s space for the passengers’ feet. The side walls are soft and fabric-covered for comfort. The interior materials are water-repellent and stain and fade resistant, so strong efforts have been made to ensure the interior of the Veer Cruiser should last you as long as the solidly built exterior.
Here’s the thing though – while the 7S is all cushioned, all the time, the Veer Cruiser opts for more ruggedness – the seats are plastic, the backrest rubberized. No padding, no cushions, no prince or princess fantasies here. This is more a NASCAR fantasy, rugged riding through mud and brush and devil take the hindmost. Even the 3-point harness comes unpadded, introducing kids at an early age to the rough and tumble reality of a wilder, less protected existence.
You can buy padding for the Veer Cruiser separately if you want to add some plush luxury to it, but the differences in approach to the business of building a stroller wagon are perhaps best shown in these differences of interior design in each company’s premium product.
The Veer of course has shorter sides, again exemplifying the differences of approach. With shorter sides, the passengers get full 360° views. On the other hand, they’re closer to the ground, should wandering hands go investigating the wheels – a potential danger point on the Veer Cruiser.
That said, it’s worth remembering that the rear wheels come with fenders to avoid that horrifying prospect.
The Veer Cruiser is a good option if you have kids of two different ages riding in it – and of course it scores over the 7S in that you can use it from birth, whereas the Keenz is certified safe for kids over a year old.
The Veer Cruiser will support an infant car seat, with the right adaptor – though only the one, so newborn twins are out of luck. But for two kids of different ages, the options are useful – you can even turn the Veer Cruiser into a bassinet with the Veer Cruiser Nap System – again, sold separately.
If you’re using the Veer Cruiser for two kids of different ages, bear in mind that while the weight limit allows for two five year-olds, by the time your child is getting to around six, they may have more leg-room issues in the stroller wagon than they have weight issues.
The canopy’s an important part of a stroller wagon, just as it’s important on a straightforward stroller.
The Keenz 7S has a fully removable canopy, so you can adjust to the requirements of the weather – full canopy for sunny days and rainy days, maybe canopy-free on days that are more or less neutral.
Also of course, as your kids get taller, you can remove the canopy to give them extra headroom while sitting comfortably. Kids up to age 8 can fit in the Keenz 7S, so that might well be a factor as the kids get taller.
Alongside its top canopy, the Keenz 7S comes with side curtains to keep your passengers cool in hot sun, without restricting the flow of air.
By contrast, the Veer Cruiser doesn’t come with its canopy supplied. If you want to add one, it’s a separate add-on – you can get it from Amazon. And something to note is that if you want both your kids to have shade from the sun, in the Veer, you need to buy two canopies.
That said, the Veer canopy is well made, with side vents that serve as peek-a-boo windows to let it keep an eye on your loved ones.
The Keenz 7S comes with two handles, both of which are adjustable, meaning you can choose whether to push it or pull it. The adjustments on the handles go up to 43”.
The Veer Cruiser has just the one handlebar, and instead of ratcheted adjustments, it telescopes to adjust to the height of whoever’s pulling or pushing it.
That telescoping allows a significant scope of use, from parents around 5’5” up to around 6’3”, so most people will be able to find their comfortable push-me-pull-you spot.
Storage space is another area where the stroller wagons differentiate themselves.
The Veer is much more a passenger-oriented vehicle – there are some storage pockets for toys and snacks, certainly, but not much more. Certainly, and unlike most modern strollers, there’s no storage basket for bigger items. No diaper bag space here, and with the telescoping handle, there’s no convenient hooking place to hang such a bag on the handle either.
But – you can tell what’s coming with the Veer by now, can’t you? - you can buy a Veer storage bin separately at Amazon.
While it’s a great solution to the storage space problem, it’s worth noting that pimping out the Veer is starting to get expensive by the time you’ve added in all the things that don’t come with it as standard.
The Keenz 7S has more storage space built in – including a big storage basket (Diaper bag, right here) and some additional shoe-space. It also comes with the almost obligatory collection of neat pockets for small items.
The Keenz 7S has a habit of selling out quickly online. If you decide it’s the stroller wagon for you, click the button while the thought is hot in your head, before it goes out of stock again.
Weight and Folding
The Veer Cruiser folds up almost like it’s been for a visit to the car crusher. Even the sides fold down – it’s both cute and cartoonish, but importantly, it self-stands, so it’s easy to store at home or in the trunk of your car.
The Keenz 7S folds pretty small too – it’s actually narrower and shorter than the Veer Cruiser, something that doesn’t often come across in photos. In the continuing sense of Keenz providing things that Veer make you add on as you need them, the Keenz comes with a cover for storage and travel, and it self-stands too. In fact with the Keenz, you can even pull it along folded, like a combination of a suitcase and a sandwich.
In terms of weight, these stroller wagons are in the double stroller league, rather than single stroller, which makes some sense given that they’re engineered to carry two passengers.
As they stand, without canopies, add-on storage baskets or the like, the Keenz 7S weighs around 29 pounds, while the Veer Cruiser weighs in at a fairly substantial 32.5 pounds, meaning you’ll notice the difference between the two. That said, they’re both well within lifting weight, and should give you no trouble getting them into the car.
Stroller wagons may not have the same style credentials as standard strollers just yet, but you can style them out pretty well. The Keenz 7S comes in four color variants: black, grey, purple and green. Pick the shade that suits your parental style.
The Veer Cruiser comes in the Henry Ford option outside – the frame’s black and that’s how it comes. The walls are heather gray.
But again, whereas with the Keenz, you can simply order the color you want from Amazon, with the Veer, you can customize your interior color scheme, but you have to do it through the official Veer website.
There, you can change the color of your canopy too. Blue, orange, white or green? Which of the Veer options says ‘You’?
So Which Stroller Wagon Is Better?
Let’s have fun with tables, and see whether the stats prove one or the other of these stroller wagons is objectively ‘better.’
Keenz 7S Stroller Wagon
Veer Cruiser Stroller Wagon Hybrid
12 months to 8 years
From birth (with infant car seat) to 5 years
Option of pushing and pulling
Can wheels handle uneven terrain (e.g. gravel, grass)
Lockable front wheels
Fenders for rear wheels
Beach wheels (sold separately)
Use with infant car seat?
Turn it into a bassinet?
Padding throughout the whole wagon. Padding is removable and washable. Two seat cushions
Only the side walls are padded, not the built-in seats
5-point harnesses, each strap padded
3-point harnesses, no padding
2 adjustable handles
1 telescoping handle, height-adjustable
One removable canopy covers both seats, includes side sunscreens and mesh top vents, included with purchase
Canopies sold separately (removable, one canopy covers one seat)
Items for convenience included in the price
Removable storage basket, travel cover, shoe compartment, additional pockets
2 cup holders, kid’s tray for snacks and beverages, storage pockets
Weight (without canopy)
Where to buy?
Reasons to choose the Veer Cruiser
The Veer Cruiser is a durable, well-built stroller wagon with some awesome style. On top of which, it has two things the Keenz 7S doesn’t: it’s compatible with infant car seats, which means you can use it from birth. And it has a footwell (Seriously, just saying…).
That said, the price might well blow some parents’ hair back, compared to both the Keenz and to most strollers. But you’re looking at an investment that can take you from birth into the toddling years with no questions asked.
Divide the price by five (each year of a five year-old’s life) if you like, and think of how much use you’ll get out of it per year.
It’s worth remembering though that the Veer comes without a lot of the items that make it fully functional and useful to you and your baby, so you have to add on quite a few expensive pimp-it-up items to get the most out of the Veer, adding to the already slightly staggering price.
But that you’re not just paying for an ordinary stroller here. The stroller wagon, and particularly the Veer Cruiser, is more adventurous than a standard stroller. You can use it to have adventures off-road and in nature, where many standard strollers would just give up and refuse to move another step.
Bottom line: Get the Veer from day one and you probably won’t need a regular stroller at all.
Reasons to choose the Keenz 7S
The Keenz 7S is unpretentious, stacked with both features and equipment, and very hands-on and user-friendly. Two handlebars, padded interior, padded 5-point harnesses, removable canopy with side sunscreens, lots of storage pockets, shoe-space and storage cover all come in your basic price.
The add-ons you can get are less essential, so it’s more of a plug-and-play prospect. Click, buy, wait, assemble and go. There’s no hardship there.
It’s also well-built and will last you for years. But you can only use it from around the age of twelve months, which means if you intend to leave the house at all, you’ll need a first year stroller or stroller wagon on top of the purchase price of the Keenz.
Which begs the question of why you wouldn’t either get the Veer or a high-tech standard stroller from day one and be done. The Keenz can serve you as a stroller alternative – but not for that crucial first year.
Other points to consider about the Keenz 7S – it folds small so you can pull it along like a suitcase, which apart from all practical considerations is just so cute you want to eat it.
It’s lighter than the Veer, has lockable front wheels, higher side walls to minimize the risk of damage to wandering fingers, and, crucially, you can still be using it when your kids are anything between 6-8 years, where the Veer is probably done after age 5.
The Veer Cruiser is much more expensive than the Keenz 7S, especially if you’re going to pimp it out with canopies and padding and suchlike necessities. But it’s all the stroller you’ll need till your kids are age 5.
The Keenz 7S will mean you need an extra stroller for that first year, which will more or less equalize the price.
But, on that logic, if we assume for the sake of argument the price is more or less equal for a fully pimped-out Veer Cruiser or a Keenz 7S (with all the stuff that comes with the purchase price), and an extra first year stroller…
We’re left with the conclusion that the Keenz+first year stroller combo will last you and your kids till they’re between 6-8 years old, where the stylish Veer Cruiser gives up the ghost of usefulness around age 5.
So that’s where we are. Both stroller wagons are pretty awesome. Top quality builds, useful both in urban situations and off-road adventuring. The Keenz 7S comes fully loaded for a great price, but you have to have a first year stroller before you can start using it.
That said, it’ll then last you and your kids till they’re between 6-8. The Veer Cruiser on the other hand is a stylish monster which you can use from day one, but you’ll lose anything up to three years of use of it on the other end.
Neither of these superb stroller wagons will see you wrong on day trips, whether they’re to the mall, the zoo or the wild unknown.
Here’s the thing though. Whichever of the stroller wagons we personally prefer – a decision which when it comes right down to it depends on our individual family dynamics – they do a lot of the things you’d expect a stroller to do.
Why Use A Wagon Instead Of A Stroller?
Size does matter.
Weight matters even more.
That’s one of the biggest differences between strollers and stroller wagons. Although many big kid strollers can take up to 65 or 75 pounds in a single-seater, stroller wagons blow that out of the water, carrying 5, 6, 7, even 8 year-old kids, in comfort and without any drama.
In strollers, kids frequently outgrow the seats before they reach the weight limit – not a problem with the stroller wagons, at least until most kids reach something like age 6.
That right there equates to a solid investment – in time, in worry-free strolling, and in additional fun when kids can be face to face rather than alongside each other.
Add to that their off-road functioning, where most strollers simply couldn’t or wouldn’t go, and you’re starting to build a case for stroller wagons over standard strollers.
Stroller wagons can be a great alternative when:
Your baby grows rapidly, breaking the expectations on which strollers depend for their age or weight-appropriateness
Your kid is taller than stroller backrests allow
Your child has special needs which regular strollers can’t accommodate
You’re looking for an adventurous alternative for trips to zoos, parks or the great outdoors
But stroller wagons are not just alternatives to turn to when a regular stroller won’t meet your needs. There’s no reason why they’re not appealing in their own right.
The Veer Cruiser can be your first and only stroller from day 1, with the use of an infant car seat and/or a bassinet.
The Keenz 7S can take your kids everywhere you want them to go from age 1 all the way through to age 8 if need be.
That’s difficult to compete with in one single stroller.
Where You Ca n Use Your Stroller Wagon
We know that with their rugged construction, you can use stroller wagons for off-roading, hiking and adventures in the wild. But can they serve you just as well at the mall?
Honestly? Yes, they can. They have the maneuverability you need in a regular, everyday stroller, and the different sizes in their front and rear wheels make for easy riding in urban environments.
They can fit through most normal sized doors, and while you can’t do U-turns in narrow grocery aisles, with a stroller wagon, you just change your grip and reverse your direction.
So yes, you can take your stroller wagon on all your errands, your shopping trips, your family visits and every other day-to-day journey you take, be your kid just 1 year old or 5.
Frequently Asked Questions
Can you use the Keenz 7S and the Veer Cruiser at Disneyland?
Prior to 2019, both Disneyland and Disney World welcomed parents with stroller wagons, so long as the wagons were pushed in the style of strollers. As of May 1st, 2019 though, a policy change has meant that stroller wagons are no longer allowed for use in Disney venues.
Can you take stroller wagons on airplanes?
Both the Keenz and the Veer wagon are too big to be taken on board as carry-on. Check them at the gate though and you should have no travel issues. For extra certainty, take off the wheels so you can be sure they won’t get damaged during the flight.
Can you use these stroller wagons for one child who weighs over 55 pounds?
The stroller wagons we’re discussing here each have a capacity of 110 pounds, 55 pounds per seat. Exceeding the seat weight limit is something you do at your own discretion, though there is anecdotal evidence online that the Keenz 7S can be used by one child weighing more than 55 pounds with no ill effects.
Can you use these stroller wagons to transport three kids at a time?
You’re getting into troublesome territory here. Both Keenz and Veer have two seats and two sets of harnesses. Each stroller wagon can hold up to 110 pounds, so it’s probably not the weight limit that will be the issue.
The safety factors involved in at least one kid having nowhere to sit, and having no safety harness to keep them from being jostled, flung about or even ejected from the stroller wagon though would be a concern.
Again, everything is probably possible at your own discretion, but would you put three young kids in the back of a car and only strap in two of them?
There is a new brand called Wonderfold which offers stroller wagons with can safely accommodate up to four passengers, up to a capacity of 180 pounds. Check it out if you need or want to get a stroller wagon with a higher passenger capacity.
What’s the comparison between a stroller wagon and a double jogging stroller?
In straightforward terms, neither the Keenz nor the Veer stroller wagon are suitable for running.
Good fast walking, yes.
Running, no. The sheer increase of speed translates to a more unruly trip than they’re built for. Stroller wagons are less maneuverable than most jogging strollers, especially when turning. These are still the best stroller wagons on the market today though.
How comfortable are the stroller wagon interiors?
The Keenz 7S is not so much comfortable as plush.
Think Disney Princess carriage ride.
Padding throughout the interior, cushions, rounded edges, you name it, Keenz has put the work into making it comfortable for your little one.
Some parents even say the Keenz wagon is so relaxing that their children take naps in it.
The Veer Cruiser as it comes is… not a nap-wagon.
Its seats are plastic and its backrest rubberized, so as it arrives with you, it’s less about the comfort, more about the excitement and engagement with the world around you.
That said, you can of course pick up the Veer Nap System specifically to turn it into a more comfortable, nappable prospect.
Keenz vs Veer – Which has the better beach game?
Generally, they’re both great on uneven surfaces. Sandy beaches – whole other story. If the sand’s not too deep, they’ll find another gear and push on. But if it’s soft and loose, you may well find they get stuck.
As they arrive with you, the Veer Cruiser is probably the better battler through beach sand. But, aware of the shortcoming of its stroller wagon, Keenz makes a set of special beach wheels available to buy. Those wheels elevate it above the performance of the standard Veers Cruiser, which has no beach-specific upgrade available.
Keenz is also redesigning its beach wheels to turn them into all-terrain wheels. Oh yes – the days of the all-terrain stroller wagon are coming…
Winter is coming. Winter is always coming. Can you use these stroller wagons in snow and ice?
Why yes. Yes, you can.
Slush and snow in themselves pose no obstacle to either the Keenz or the Veer stroller wagon.
That said, if you get 6 feet of snow overnight, maybe go with something more…sledlike.
But generally, yes, stroller wagons on snow and ice have no problem.
Just a tip though – on ice, slush or snow, always push, never pull. Physics wants to be your friend on this, but you have to meet it halfway.